1. Think back to the last scene of Flipper and Angie together in their apartment. Do you guys think that Flipper was right and that Angie only wanted to be in a relationship with him because she was "curious" about black guys? Do you think Flipper was just "curious?"
2. There were lots of constraints on Flipper and Angie's interracial relationship. What limitations and restrictions stood out to you?
3. What were your reactions to the ending? What questions did it leave you with? Did you like this ending better than School Daze?
ReplyDelete1. Think back to the last scene of Flipper and Angie together in their apartment. Do you guys think that Flipper was right and that Angie only wanted to be in a relationship with him because she was "curious" about black guys? Do you think Flipper was just "curious?"
I believe that Angie and Flipper really were curious. The two only knew each other for a couple of days before they had sed in their office. First, it was a late night. The two were not in their right minds and let their false emotions get the better of them. Second, Flipper even said to his friend (played by Spike Lee) that he has always been “curious about Caucasian women.” I would not be surprised if Angie was also curious about black men. Her family is obviously not open to interracial relationships, especially when it happens within their own families. I would think that after being kept from a race (in a romantic sense) for so long, Angie would wonder what she has been missing.
2. There were lots of constraints on Flipper and Angie's interracial relationship. What limitations and restrictions stood out to you?
One of the limitations is that Flipper and Angie were not allowed to eat in restaurants in peace. They were constantly harassed by Queen Latifah’s character, a waitress who frowned upon Flipper and Angie’s relationship. Another restriction is that both Flipper and Angie were rejected from their families. This put a tremendous strain on their relationship because they had to live together with their differences. Soon, these differences would begin to weigh on them.
3. What were your reactions to the ending? What questions did it leave you with? Did you like this ending better than School Daze?
I really enjoyed the ending. Personally, I believe that Spike Lee goes for a more theatrical ending in order to ensure that the message is conveyed to the audience. There are times, like in this movie, where some people will see his endings as “silly” or “overdramatized.” However, I believe that it serves the purpose of teaching the audience something. I guess that the only question that I am left with is “What is Flipper’s relationship with his family now?” After he and Angie break up, we see Flipper having sex with Drew (who is crying). Afterwards, he leaves the house. I would just like to know what terms Drew and Flipper are on after the entire situation. In addition, I believe that this ending and the ending of School Daze were equally great. Some would say that they were both dramatized, even though they came after extremely tense topics/scenes (such as Gator’s death or Jane’s non-consensual sex agreement). However, I believe that each ending was a fitting conclusion for each movie, respectively, because it gave the audience something to remember. Over time, I believe that Spike Lee’s ending will (or already are) be iconic.
1. Think back to the last scene of Flipper and Angie together in their apartment. Do you guys think that Flipper was right and that Angie only wanted to be in a relationship with him because she was "curious" about black guys? Do you think Flipper was just "curious?"
ReplyDeleteI do think Angie just wanted to be in a relationship with Flipper because he was black. I don't think she really knew him long enough to actually fall in love with him. I also think that Flipper was just curious about white women and what a relationship with a white woman is like compared to a relationship with a black woman. Also, like his wife told him in their confrontation at Bloomingdales, maybe Flipper does have a little bit of a colorism thing going on, which may have influenced his decision in dating Angie.
2. There were lots of constraints on Flipper and Angie's interracial relationship. What limitations and restrictions stood out to you?
I was shocked by the scene in the restaurant where the waitress was initially refusing to serve Flipper and Angie food. Maybe this is just because the movie takes place in the 90s and this is a different more progressive time, but I think that the waitress's behavior was totally unacceptable.
The most surprising scene however was probably when Angie's dad literally beat her and even whipped her with a belt because she was "seeing a n*****". That scene was so violent and horrific and racist that it totally threw me off.
3. What were your reactions to the ending? What questions did it leave you with? Did you like this ending better than School Daze?
The ending also threw me off to the point where I was just like "what...?". I have to admit it was pretty funny though, even though I don't know exactly why Spike Lee decided to end the movie this way since it seemed so totally random in that moment. I did like this ending better than the ending of School Daze because I think if you are going to end a movie questionably, you may as well make it funny.
1. Think back to the last scene of Flipper and Angie together in their apartment. Do you guys think that Flipper was right and that Angie only wanted to be in a relationship with him because she was "curious" about black guys? Do you think Flipper was just "curious?"
ReplyDeleteI think that Flipper’s interest in Angie purely stemmed from curiosity, but I can’t be sure that Angie was the same way. Part of this has to do with the fact that Spike allowed the viewer to see more of Flipper’s emotions and personal life, but another part of my suspicion comes from the nature of the relationships Flipper and Angie were in prior to meeting each other. While Flipper had a perfectly good marriage and clearly loved his wife, Angie was seemingly unhappy in her relationship with Paulie. I got the sense that Angie felt a pressure to marry Paulie since the two came from similar backgrounds and had been dating since high school. I think it is very possible that Angie could have genuinely felt love for Flipper, considering her past relationship had been relatively unsuccessful.
2. There were lots of constraints on Flipper and Angie's interracial relationship. What limitations and restrictions stood out to you?
The scene in the restaurant where Flipper and Angie were not being waited on really stood out to me. It was like a mild role reversal in terms of racial oppression with Flipper and Angie being mistreated because Angie became the minority in a black-dominated space. The scene with the cops thinking Flipper was trying to rape Angie stood out to me as well. The scene/scenario did not surprise me, since this sort of attitude towards black men from white cops is (sadly) expected, but the scene still stuck with me because it reminded me of “Do the Right Thing” when Radio Raheem got shot by the same police force.
3. What were your reactions to the ending? What questions did it leave you with? Did you like this ending better than School Daze?
The ending was a classic Spike Lee ending in that it left me confused and at a loss for words. I enjoyed the movie for the most part up until that final scene because it left me so baffled. This ending, however, made a lot more sense than the ending to School Daze. I felt that at least this ending related to some of the plot lines, like those of Flipper’s daughter and addiction/sex. I still wish that Spike Lee could find a way to leave the viewer not entirely lost, because his endings so far have left me with a sour review because all I can recall about the movie is how angry the ending made me.
1. Think back to the last scene of Flipper and Angie together in their apartment. Do you guys think that Flipper was right and that Angie only wanted to be in a relationship with him because she was "curious" about black guys? Do you think Flipper was just "curious?"
ReplyDelete1. I feel like Flipper was definitely “curious” , I’m not sure about Angie though. I feel like maybe in the beginning she was but I think there was definitely another element she felt.
2. There were lots of constraints on Flipper and Angie's interracial relationship. What limitations and restrictions stood out to you?
2. Definitely the two different families reactions were very strong to me. The two big reactions being from the fathers of Angie and Flipper. Angie’s father was of course very bad, but Flippers dad was terrible also. They both had so much hate.
3. What were your reactions to the ending? What questions did it leave you with? Did you like this ending better than School Daze?
3. The ending was very Spike Lee, which is the only part of Spike Lee I don’t like. Again, he didn’t know how to end it so he did another one liner that made no real sense. I do think it’s better than School Daze but still, not good.
1. I think that they were both curious about the other race, but I also think that they formed romantic feelings for each other. I don't think that Flipper was right to assume how she felt because I think that Angie genuinely was feeling trapped in her role at home and with Paulie and wanted a change.
ReplyDelete2. The reactions of the families and how they all had their prejudices rowards the topic. Angie's father was more violent and Flipper's father was quietly rageing and used stories from the Bible to show his feelings. I also noticed how when they were out together and they had to keep a distance between them and had to endure discrimination. For example, the waitress in the restaurant towards Angie.
3. It was similar to the other endings in Spike's other movies so i was not suprised but I still woah that it had an ending thst wrapped everything up. I wondered what would happen between Drew and Flipper because Flipper said they were going to be togethet soon, but Drew was not letting him in until that last scene. I liked this better than school daze because the prostitute was a recourring character rather than inschool daze the ending wasnt previously mentioned in the movie and came out of the blue.
1. Think back to the last scene of Flipper and Angie together in their apartment. Do you guys think that Flipper was right and that Angie only wanted to be in a relationship with him because she was "curious" about black guys? Do you think Flipper was just "curious?"
ReplyDeleteTo me, I think it was a mixture of curiosity about the other race and also love. It seemed that Angie and Flipper’s conversations on the boardwalk and how they interacted with each other indicated that they cared for each other, even if it was a little bit. Spike Lee may have done this on purpose to make the viewer believe they were in love. I do also believe that the fact that they had sex after a couple days made it seemed like that was the main goal of the relationship.
2. There were lots of constraints on Flipper and Angie's interracial relationship. What limitations and restrictions stood out to you?
The scene that stood out to me was when Angie came home and her dad slapped her a lot. This scene made me really upset because the fact that he could beat up his own daughter that badly just for dating a black man was really disturbing and unsettling. I expected hatred toward the interracial relationship, but not that type of physical abuse.
3. What were your reactions to the ending? What questions did it leave you with? Did you like this ending better than School Daze?
I really did not like the ending again. I just don’t understand how it pertains to the movie. I think if Spike added in something explaining the meaning of “Noooo” while Flipper hugs the prostitute’s head, it would have cleared up a lot of my confusion. As of right now, I am very confused.
1. I don’t know what to make of the last scene with Flipper and Angie together. While Flipper tried to reason that the only way Angie was with him was because they were both curious. I think that there might have been some relationship between the two of them, but it is hard to tell because all we see of their work relationship before they start having sex is only during their dinners. We never had the chance to see them during work and how they interacted. From what we saw and nothing else, I think that they were only together because they were curious. However, if we were able to look at their entire work relationship, my answer might change depending on how they behaved around each other.
ReplyDelete2. One limitation that stood out to me was being in public. The scene where they go out for lunch and the waitress deliberately doesn’t take their order just seemed weird. I just feel that not doing your job because of how you view a relationship is purely idiotic. Another restriction that stood out was when the were play fighting outside and the police officers pulled up and tried to arrest Flipper. The part that stood out to me was when Flipper repeatedly said that they weren’t dating, and were only friends while Angie said otherwise.
3. In comparison to the ending in “School Daze,” this ending was miles better. Although it did leave one question unanswered, who was that girl and why did Flipper yell no, it wasn’t as climactic. I feel that the ending gave some kind of closure to the story. How Angie was back in her house with her dad and brothers, and it looked like Flipper was trying to work things out with Drew.
1. Think back to the last scene of Flipper and Angie together in their apartment. Do you guys think that Flipper was right and that Angie only wanted to be in a relationship with him because she was "curious" about black guys? Do you think Flipper was just "curious?"
ReplyDeleteI do think for Angie it was more than just being curious. When Flipper described his cheating situation to his friend he kept saying that he was curious about white women, however, Angie never said that to her friends when she was talking about the affair. I think she really was really starting to fall in love with him because she came back to the apartment to make things better and Flipper blasted out saying that their situation was not going to work out. Also earlier in the movie Angie asks about having kids and Flipper immediately shuts her down saying that he already has a wife and kids. I think that as the movie went on I lost sympathy for Flipper and gained more for Angie oddly.
2. There were lots of constraints on Flipper and Angie's interracial relationship. What limitations and restrictions stood out to you?
I think a big restriction is how other people of there races viewed them. The waitress in the restaurant they went to wouldn't serve them, the cops didn't believe they were dating, and on top of that both sides of the family aren't supportive. I think that if the really wanted to be together the relationship should have been going on for longer and they should have been in deep love with each other.
3. What were your reactions to the ending? What questions did it leave you with? Did you like this ending better than School Daze?
The ending made me laugh. I thought it was dumb but very Spike. I question why Drew was crying and why she would even take Flipper back. I guess Flipper screamed "no" because he was addressing the whole "don't do drugs" situation but I don't think it was a good way to end. Honestly when Flipper's brother was shot I didn't feel bad because I hated his character and the way he treated everyone around him. I was also shocked that Angie's father took her back into his house after all that yelling he did to her. I was really happy when Paulie slammed that annoying guy into the trash can and then proceeded to go see the girl he asked out. Overall the ending didn't answer all of my questions but I think it's better than School Daze because it is more conclusive.
ReplyDeleteI do think that they were both curious, however I don't believe that was the only reason they were in a relationship. The question of if Angie was curious or not is debatable, but I think it is very obvious that Flipper is curious. We can see this by observing the way that Flipper engages in a relationship with Angie while still saying he loves his wife and refusing to commit to his relationship with Angie. The biggest limitation that stood out to me was how they were not allowed to spend time with each other's family. Angie has to move out of her home because her father is straight up racist, and while Flipper and Angie are able to have dinner with Flipper's parents, it is clear that his parents are not comfortable with their relationship. I was disappointed with the ending because the movie was very normal for most of the time, but then at the end, like in all Spike Lee movies, everything got crazy. I think it is ok to mix it up with the endings of movies sometimes, however I did not like the ending of this movie. I have no specific questions about the ending, I just don't understand the last scene with Flipper yelling. I didn't see the ending of School Daze, so I don't know which ending I like more.
1. Think back to the last scene of Flipper and Angie together in their apartment. Do you guys think that Flipper was right and that Angie only wanted to be in a relationship with him because she was "curious" about black guys? Do you think Flipper was just "curious?"
ReplyDeleteI think that they had to have had some connection, because why her? She could not have been the first white woman he has ever been attracted to. Also, I would like to think he did not ruin his marrée solely off of him wanting to “feel what it is like” to be with a white woman. The same goes for Angie, I hope she did not leave a nice guy like Paulie just to “test out” what it is like to be with a black man.
2. There were lots of constraints on Flipper and Angie's interracial relationship. What limitations and restrictions stood out to you?
I am not surprised by Drew kicking Flipper out, because it was not completely about race, a lot of that decision was from him cheating on her with anyone. Admittedly, during the scene when Drew is talking to her friends we see that she is really annoyed it was a white woman, but I think she while have been mad no matter who he wa with. I am super surprised at how violently both Paulie’s dad and Angie’s dad reacted. I did not expect them to be happy, but I did not think Angie’s dad would beta her with his belt and kick her out.
3. What were your reactions to the ending? What questions did it leave you with? Did you like this ending better than School Daze?
I liked this ending more than School Daze’s, because Gator getting shot was not completely out of the blue. It was really extreme, but at least the father had a reason, even if what he did was a little drastic. My question is, why her was not a scene where Drew tells flipper he can visit her and Ming. We just see him with them, and then him leave without any explanation on why he was there.
I think Flipper was just curious because he said it out right himself. But Angie said “don’t tell me what I felt or feel” which implies to me that she did initially and possibly at the time being have feelings for Flipper. I would say she was probably curious about black men, and I wouldn’t say she simply just loved him, but I think it’s something in the middle.
ReplyDeleteI would say the biggest limitation that stood out to me was the fact that they both got kicked out of their houses and rejected by their families. They seemed to be in constant decision wether to listen to the family or follow their relationship. It turned out that the family side won the battle.
The beggining of the ending, if that makes any sense at all, actually seemed quite good. Actually for once, 95% of the movie was moderately logical and had less crazy Spike Lee vibes. But the very end made little to no sense to me. Ok, maybe he screens no because he messed up his family and relationship with his wife, but why does he hug a prostitute that just offered to suck his dick and scream at the sky? I don’t know, and I don’t think I will ever know.
I don’t think that Flipper was right entirely. Personally, I think that both were looking for something ‘new’ and ‘different’ or ‘exciting’ but I believe that they were both falling for each other. Perhaps the forces pulling them apart affected their real feelings too much which led Flipper to believe that it was all just curiosity because that was the easy way out of the relationship and its consequences that he couldn’t withstand. I found that what Flipper said about him and Angie having interracial children was something that stood out to me. It almost felt like some of the colorism seen in “School Daze” was shown in this film too. At some point it was stated that Angie practically had darker skin than Drew, along with the conversation of Drew, Vera, and the other women when they spoke about being lighter and darker and how black men went for the lighter skinned women. Drew stated that growing up it was hard being called all those names having to do with being light skinned though at the same time being light skinned seems to be an attribute black women wanted. So… there is a lot of colorism along with racism and nobody really seems content with the color or race of anyone. The ending had sort of that resolved feeling yet it just sort of looped back around and felt like it ended where it started, therefore being ~unresolved~. I didn’t like Flipper’s yell at the end… it was weird. I think I liked this ending more than “School Daze” because the whole movie made more sense and that made the ending make more sense. The ending in “School Daze” was so strange and the one in this film was only slightly strange.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think that Angie just wanted to be in a relationship with Flipper because she was curious about black guys. I think she had a real romantic connection with him and I think it was reciprocal and Flipper just didn’t want to admit it because it was easier to believe that he cheated on his wife just out of curiosity.
ReplyDeleteThe way that people who had no personal connection to either Flipper or Angie reacted when they saw the two together stuck out to me a lot. It was clear that even in the north in the nineties, interracial relationships were still frowned down upon by the majority of society, regardless of the race or socioeconomic status of the lovers.
3. The ending made me wonder about what the future of Drew and Flipper’s relationship as well as the relationship between Drew and his parents. I think that Drew was crying when she was having sex with Flipper because she felt guilty about giving him another chance in spite her better judgment and everything that her friends had said. I wonder how Drew will react to the death of his brother as well.
1. Think back to the last scene of Flipper and Angie together in their apartment. Do you guys think that Flipper was right and that Angie only wanted to be in a relationship with him because she was "curious" about black guys? Do you think Flipper was just "curious?"
ReplyDeleteI don't think Flipper was right about Angie. Angie seemed to have real feelings for Flipper. Throughout the film, she's always the one looking toward their future. She's the one who's open to having a relationship before they are discovered. She's the one who suggested that they might have kids one day. Flipper is the one who constantly shuts the idea of a future together down. He refuses to leave his wife, and he refuses to have mixed race children. In the parallel scenes of Angie and Flipper telling their friends about what happened, Flipper is the one who acts defensive, seemingly making up excuses for himself rather than for his friend. Angie never seems like she feels ashamed during her conversation. When Flipper said that she was just "curious", I think he was just projecting. Perhaps projecting what he felt and the reason why he got with Angie, perhaps projecting a lie he was telling himself to easy the guilt of breaking it off with her. It's less clear why Flipper got together with Angie. While he shows genuine affection for her in some scenes, the way he talks about her in multiple scenes (such as his conversation with Cyrus or when he brought flowers to his wife) suggest that he doesn't really feel a connection with her. Perhaps this is an excuse, a lie he tells himself to ease the guilt of being with a white girl and yo easy the pain of breaking up with her. Maybe it's the truth. But Flipper doesn't know how Angie feels. The final shot of Angie laying in bed, imagining Flipper (I believe she says "why won't you go"), suggests that she still has feeling for him, and that she really did love him.
2. There were lots of constraints on Flipper and Angie's interracial relationship. What limitations and restrictions stood out to you?
I had expected the tension coming from the white people, and to an extent I was expecting the tension from the black people, but I was surprised by how deeply the hatred and blame of white women was in this film. I got the sense that some of the women who looked scornfully at white women were venting internalized racism, the feeling that they can't compete with white women, that successful black men always have a white woman on their arm. They have internalized the false notion that they are less than white women, as they assume that when white women throw themselves at black men the men will go with them, and take out that anger and hatred by setting strict boundaries between black and white. This is seen not just in the hatred of relationships between black and white people, but also in the hatred that mixed race people such as Drew experience.
Different but related to that point, I thought that sexism was also a constraint. Even if the race aspect was taken out (not that it should be, it's a integral part of the story, but for the sake of argument), we see that when the black women discuss Flipper's cheating, most of the blame is placed on Angie. Angie is seen as the seductress, a temptation leading Flipper astray, a common sexist stereotype used to blame women for men's sexual misconduct. Flipper isn't seen as entirely responsible for his own actions, as Angie tempted him. This idea is echoed in the Good Reverend Doctor's speech to Angie and Flipper.
3. What were your reactions to the ending? What questions did it leave you with? Did you like this ending better than School Daze?
DeleteI liked some parts of the ending but not others. I liked that Angie and Flipper's relationship didn't work out. Because films like this are supposed to have a happy ending, this issues that drive the couple apart seem more like obstacles than things that could actually tear their relationship apart. It was interesting for a movie to show the full ramifications this kind of mindset against interracial relationships can have. Some could argue that this is meant to show that interracial relationships don't work and people should stay with their own race, but I'd argue that's not true because the film ends hopefully for Paulie's relationship with Orid. He manages to over come the literal and metaphorical obstacle of his peers to reach Orid's house. This part of the ending was strong. The rest of it kind of fell apart. Gator getting shot felt almost surreal, like it wasn't actually happening. The rest if the film felt grounded and subtle, so to have such a dramatic moment felt out of place. It was a well crafted scene, and the acting and writing were all great, it just felt out of place. I liked the ambiguity of whether or not Flipper would end amend his relationship with Drew. However, the final shot of him screaming "no!" took me out of this otherwise simple and lonely scene and was pretty confusing. It reminded me a bit of the ending to "School Daze". It has the same problem of trying to end the film on a climatic, dramatic, thought-provoking moment that ultimately makes the audience feel more confused than anything else. I still liked this ending better than "School Daze"'s though. While it definitely stumbled in places, I felt like the ending to "Jungle Fever" had a point to make and resolved the conflict well, while also leaving enough open-ended to make you think and for it to feel realistic. "School Daze" had noble ambitions (I think), but it completely fell apart and became a big, long, unfocused, anti-climax, confusing mess.
• Joanie
1. I don’t think that I know the inner workings of Angie enough to be able to definitively say whether or not she’s just being curious. I think that it may have played a key role in her attraction to Flipper, but my mind keeps going back to the fact that she wasn’t as keen on the idea of having an affair at the beginning of the movie as Flipper was. Because of this, I think that Flipper was definitely telling the truth about his mere curiosity but I really don’t think that I can say yes or no about Angie.
ReplyDelete2. For starters, they got a lot of odd looks when they were out together in public. This would obviously make being in a relationship difficult because they couldn’t be candid with each other. The fact that they got the police called on them because they were rough housing in public is an obvious constraint on their ability to be together. Of course, Angie’s family is another limitation because of how horrified her dad was, and the same goes for Flipper’s dad.
3. I was fairly disappointed with this ending. The movie had been so elegant and the dialogue had been sneakily deliberate the whole movie, meaning that normal conversation had so many double meanings that it really caused the audience to think. However, the clutching at the girl’s head and screaming of “NO!” at the very end was far from discrete and powerful. It seemed like a gaudy way to wrap up a movie that was very sensitive and well thought out overall.